Curse

Flem · Mar 04, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

1) Some skills ("good) are more powerful than other skills ("bad"), providing bigger damage/effective healing/shutdown

2) Some skills synergize better with each other, providing bigger numbers on damage/effective healing/shutdown. Builds that produce bigger numbers in these categories are "good", builds that don't are "bad"

3)Most players want "good" builds.

So, naturally, this forum helps people figure out which builds are good and bad, and how to improve them. This isn't happy sunshine lollipop land where all builds are perfect and beautiful, some things are better than others.

By your logic, it seems that anyone who posts a new build should be glorified by everyone here for making something new, no matter how much it sucks. Do you think, maybe, constructive criticism might be a little more helpful?

That is not what I mean at all. Yes, some skills synergize with others better then others. That's what I mean when I refer to as build.

Pretty much every skill I can think of has a possible use in a build. According to what situations you'll be facing. I'm not saying load up all 8 skills with res's or try fight Hulking Stone Elementals with sever artery or anything.

I have always said the same words...SITUATIONAL.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 04, 2008, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

That is not what I mean at all. Yes, some skills synergize with others better then others. That's what I mean when I refer to as build.

Wait a minute... I think we may be making progress here.

Sever artery is a conditional skill, and is dependent on what you're fighting. However, it is always better than barbarous slice.

An IAS is not conditional, and is always (ok, 2-3 exceptions) better than other skills you could use.

So, let's make a mini build out of that. Our baby cookie cutter needs an IAS. Let's take frenzy. Frenzy isn't going to work well unless we have a cancel stance for it, so let's grab that. Gash synergizes better than any other skill with sever artery, so let's grab that with it. Suddenly, we've recreated the cookie cutter sword bar, through simple, logical choices.

Flem · Mar 04, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Wait a minute... I think we may be making progress here.

Sever artery is a conditional skill, and is dependent on what you're fighting. However, it is always better than barbarous slice.

An IAS is not conditional, and is always (ok, 2-3 exceptions) better than other skills you could use.

So, let's make a mini build out of that. Our baby cookie cutter needs an IAS. Let's take frenzy. Frenzy isn't going to work well unless we have a cancel stance for it, so let's grab that. Gash synergizes better than any other skill with sever artery, so let's grab that with it. Suddenly, we've recreated the cookie cutter sword bar, through simple, logical choices.

I agree with practically all of that, for most of the time. I don't think, however, that an IAS is ALWAYS needed on a warrior bar. It is very helpful in lots of situations, but if you are running a build that requires another stance instead, then it's not the end of the world to not bring it. A tank is one example. Farming is another. Some PvP instances also.

Keekles · Mar 04, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Tanking in PvP means I change to the soft squishy behind you and pound his skull into the earth. Basically, tanking is best left for pve, however I'd rather use something that can let me break faces than tank.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 04, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Provide hard data to prove your point. Which skill provides something better than a 50% damage boost , 50% adrenaline boost, and making your spikes 50% faster?

This isn't the farming forum, so we're not discussing that.

Bobby2 · Mar 04, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

I agree with practically all of that, for most of the time. I don't think, however, that an IAS is ALWAYS needed on a warrior bar. It is very helpful in lots of situations, but if you are running a build that requires another stance instead, then it's not the end of the world to not bring it. A tank is one example. Farming is another. Some PvP instances also.

I have yet to see a good Warrior build without an IAS.

Abedeus · Mar 04, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Stop making it like they can't

Okay, so if you are saying that someone new can come up with something better than we, long-time players, go to a nuclear plant and find a way to make it safer and better for environment. Who cares if it will cost 20 times more for half the energy it will produce, it will be new and innovative. If it will work, of course, nobody says it will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Starting off with a flame and an opinion, awesome. lol, and yea I did say it worked it AB....because it did.... um? What can't you understand with that? IT WAS MADE FOR AB AND IT WORKED IN AB! Holy crap. Read, please. I also never claimed it was leet either. It was something I had made the night before. Everyone started flaming me like 4th graders. Then the argument got off topic, like always, and you guys started telling me that I shouldn't worry about people countering all my skills... That's so nieve.

4th graders flamed you? Maybe that's why you see flame everywhere... Sure, it was made for AB and it worked. But build used to solo smites also worked. Solo farming in FoW also did. Even a Troll farmer from 2005 (with glad's defense, mending and so on) works. What doesn't? The question is - You want to do it the stupid way, barely killing anyone and MAYBE surviving, or doing it the right way, killing fast and staying alive?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Good and Bad are opinions, sorry. Unless your the GW judge of skill/player worth, what you say as exactly as much weight as anyone else. Your ego is clouding your responses.

Unless the build has a hidden synergy, anyone playing longer than 1,5 year will know if it's a crap or not. We don't even have to test it - if something has more than 5 easy to, nomen omen, encounter counters then it won't work.

Stormlord Alex · Mar 04, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

I have yet to see a good Warrior build without an IAS.

That's because there's next to none. There's Warrior Endurance guys, who fake IAS with timed attacks; Steady Stancers who rely (well... relied) on "Fear Me!" spam for pressure; then there's tanks which are only gud if your team is baed.

Farming is another game with its own forum, so gtfo if you wanna mention farming.

Flem · Mar 04, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keekles

Tanking in PvP means I change to the soft squishy behind you and pound his skull into the earth. Basically, tanking is best left for pve, however I'd rather use something that can let me break faces than tank.

I meant tanking for PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Provide hard data to prove your point. Which skill provides something better than a 50% damage boost , 50% adrenaline boost, and making your spikes 50% faster?

This isn't the farming forum, so we're not discussing that.

If we are going for pure spike damage, then yes, IAS is very helpful.

Lets say you are starting a PuG group and the need arises for self healing/defense because of a single monk or another of the various scenarios that can be cooked up. Having a stance like Glad. is a more viable that situation.

I know this is not a farming forum, but it is a PvE forums....So, lets say you are running a two-man farm, there are better def. option out there as farm as stances go to make the run more helpful. That goes for numerous farming builds, actually.

Of course tanking.

Several "gimmick" style builds such as IWAY.

Prolly more I can think of without spending forever on it, atm.

But, once again, IAS is a good thing as long as it fits the situation. Most of the time more then 95% of people have to resort to PuG groups and don't have the same group of friends to fight with, so in PvE and PvP frenzy is to risky for me to use. Only if it's a guild party or something of the sort.

Flem · Mar 04, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Okay, so if you are saying that someone new can come up with something better than we, long-time players, go to a nuclear plant and find a way to make it safer and better for environment. Who cares if it will cost 20 times more for half the energy it will produce, it will be new and innovative. If it will work, of course, nobody says it will.

Nuclear power and GW have nothing in common.

Quote:

4th graders flamed you? Maybe that's why you see flame everywhere... Sure, it was made for AB and it worked. But build used to solo smites also worked. Solo farming in FoW also did. Even a Troll farmer from 2005 (with glad's defense, mending and so on) works. What doesn't? The question is - You want to do it the stupid way, barely killing anyone and MAYBE surviving, or doing it the right way, killing fast and staying alive?

Ever heard of a "simile"? The "stupid way" is an opinion. Just everything you say. It did work. I PuG'd, like most people.

Quote:

Unless the build has a hidden synergy, anyone playing longer than 1,5 year will know if it's a crap or not. We don't even have to test it - if something has more than 5 easy to, nomen omen, encounter counters then it won't work.

Not true. Playing for a year and a half seems to lead most people into ego-land.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

That's because there's next to none. There's Warrior Endurance guys, who fake IAS with timed attacks; Steady Stancers who rely (well... relied) on "Fear Me!" spam for pressure; then there's tanks which are only gud if your team is baed.

Farming is another game with its own forum, so gtfo if you wanna mention farming.

This is PvE warrior. It should be mentioned, just not as the sole topic.

Alex the Great · Mar 04, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

dude, cookie cutter is by definition anything viable.

somone needs to learn how to play warrior

Dr Strangelove · Mar 04, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Several "gimmick" style builds such as IWAY.

[skill]eviscerate[/skill][skill]executioner's strike[/skill][skill]disrupting chop[/skill][skill]tiger's fury[/skill][skill]"I Will Avenge You!"[/skill][skill]predatory season[/skill][skill]charm animal[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Let's play spot the IAS!

Div · Mar 04, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Please distinguish between gimping yourself and being creative.

Thread should've ended with this.

The end conclusion is: no it's not the only viable option. If you have something new, post it. If you post it and everyone thinks your build is bad, maybe there's a problem with the build. Just maybe.

So let the theorycrafting about viable vs not viable end and bring on the builds for people to critique.

Closed before Flem gets flamed to hell.